Cardinals: L.G.B.T. issues part of youth synod discussion

 10.17.2018 Pope Francis greets Cardinal Blase J. Cupich of Chicago before a session of the Synod of Bishops on young people, the faith and vocational discernment at the Vatican Oct. 16. (CNS photo/Vatican Media)10.17.2018 Pope Francis greets Cardinal Blase J. Cupich of Chicago before a session of the Synod of Bishops on young people, the faith and vocational discernment at the Vatican Oct. 16. (CNS photo/Vatican Media)

With opinion polls consistently showing that young people are accepting of same-sex marriage and other rights for L.G.B.T. people, there were questions how the ongoing synod of bishops focused on young adults might approach the subject. In the early part of the nearly month-long meeting, one U.S. archbishop made headlines when he suggested that there is no such thing as “L.G.B.T. Catholics,” setting off a debate over whether the final document produced by the global meeting should include the phrase.

The issue has not been a primary topic inside the synod hall, but at a press conference in Rome on Saturday, three archbishops responded to questions from journalists by saying the topic has arisen and that the young adult delegates have largely urged church leaders to be more welcoming to L.G.B.T. people and their families.

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“We take people where they are, walking with them, moving forward,” Cardinal Blase Cupich said.

“We have to make sure that we don’t put obstacles in the face of God’s grace. We take people where they are, walking with them, moving forward,” Cardinal Blase Cupich said in response to a question. “Sometimes in that journey they stray or they take a step back, but we’re still with them in order to keep that journey going.”

Pope Francis handpicked Cardinal Cupich, who heads the Archdiocese of Chicago, to attend the meeting, which is beginning to wrap up its work in preparing a final document to submit to the pope next week.

Another synod delegate, Cardinal John Ribat of Papua New Guinea, said that the young people present at the synod talk about L.G.B.T. issues “freely,” urging church leaders to address L.G.B.T. people in their preferred way. He said the lay delegates “are really helping us to understand, to really see where they are at, and how they [want] to be heard, recognized and accepted.”

And Australian Archbishop Peter Comensoli suggested that L.G.B.T. Catholics should not be singled out.

“Very simply, aren’t we all sinners? And aren’t we all looking to be found by God? And being found by God, how we might then find our lives in him?” he asked.

Responding to another question later, the archbishop added that it is important for church leaders to respond in a Christian way to members of the L.G.B.T. community.

“When my friends who might be homosexual or lesbian or struggling with their gender, when I speak with them, I speak with them with the friendship of Christ as I ought to, and as a friend I say, how do we progress together toward the foot of the cross?” he said.

Some Catholic bishops have advocated inside the synod that the church not use the phrase “L.G.B.T.,” a preferred acronym by many gay, lesbian and transgender people, because it connotes a political ideology. They suggest using phrases such as “persons with same-sex attraction” instead.

Earlier this month, Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia said during his presentation, “There is no such thing as an ‘LGBTQ Catholic’ or a ‘transgender Catholic’ or a ‘heterosexual Catholic,’ as if our sexual appetites defined who we are; as if these designations described discrete communities of differing but equal integrity within the real ecclesial community, the body of Jesus Christ.”

Reports released on Saturday show that members of the English-language working groups are grappling with how to address L.G.B.T. issues. One group wrote, “no one, on account of gender, lifestyle, or sexual orientation, should ever be made to feel unloved,” but added, “and this is why authentic love by no means excludes the call to conversion, to change of life.” Another group proposed the creation of a new document about ministering to L.G.B.T. people.

According to Crux, one of the German-language groups reported, “We want a serious discussion with young people in the Church on issues of sexuality and partnership,” while a Spanish-speaking group called for the church to accompany all people, “including those of different sexual orientations, so that they can grow in faith and in their relationship with God.”

The topic of sexuality had been raised earlier in the week as well.

Archbishop Matteo Zuppi, head of the Archdiocese of Bologna, said in a press conference on Oct. 18 that pastoral care for L.G.B.T. people is “an important topic” but he warned against making it “an ideological problem.”

And Silvia Retamales, a lay delegate from Chile to the synod, said in a press conference on Oct. 15 that gay people “should feel as children of God, not as problems” in the church.

“The church has to be more inclusive,” she said.

Comments are automatically closed two weeks after an article's initial publication. See our comments policy for more.
Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

It's an important question that needs to be settled but a ministry that denies the church's longstanding teaching on sex is no ministry at all. Whether talking to LGBT or young people or remarried or seminarians I think the ambiguity around church teaching on sex is really harmful.

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

I think Father Martins book does a good job to call out those who are actively hurtful to LGBT but refusal to present the church's teaching on sexuality is sophistry.

Frank Elliott
1 month 3 weeks ago

The Church's longstanding teaching on sex is reprehensible not because it demands abstinence from gay people but because it teaches them that their ability to love someone more than themselves is a tendency toward evil. That demonization drives gay Catholics to suicide. Gays and lesbians in religious traditions that demonize them are 40-50% more likely to commit suicide. As a cradle Catholic who was BORN GAY, who was educated by Jesuits, and who abstained from sex, I can that the Church is poison to gay people no matter how they live their lives.

The Church's teaching idolizes heterosexuals and heterosexuality and demonizes gays. If that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself then f#ck you.

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

I would refute that a sex act is the pinnacle of what love is. A young woman (who identifies as "same sex attracted") and member of Courage International recently had a very good twitter thread that argued to tell LGBT that they can not live as the church ask is to say that Christ's resurrection has won over some things, but not over lust.

I think the way members of the church have treated some LGBT is pretty reprehensible but as one of the speakers at the Youth Synod said the church calls LGBT to hold themselves to the same standards heterosexuals in extra marital relationships. (I would say the church could do a better job directing people in these relationships as well). Many of the speakers at the synod have also said the church needs to be welcoming to LGBT peoples, but not at the expense of church teaching. (English Group D).

Frank Elliott
1 month 3 weeks ago

Only a pervert would assume that I was talking about a sex act. I don’t have sex. I do show sacrificial love.

The Church is shit because of people like you.

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

My apologies then. I misinterpreted your earlier comment as referring to sex.

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

"the Church is poison to gay people no matter how they live their lives" ... Frank, you cut to the very heart of the matter. As a gay Catholic, I have precisely the same experience. We are taught to be at war with our sexuality ... being told that it is an objective disorder, and an inclination to intrinsic evil. Avoiding even the chance of developing romantic love relationships inevitably affects all of our love relationships. My experience is that begins to destroy our very capacity to love ... it disintegrates us, impoverishes us, hollows us out and destroys so very many of us ... the suicide data bear this out.

These people who look to the so-called "courage" apostolate should examine the skeletons in the apostolate's closet ... "Courage founder pushed bishops to resist zero tolerance on abuse" at https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2018/10/08/courage-founder-pushed… . Denying constitutional homosexuality, i.e. that being gay is a perfectly natural nonpathological minority variant of the human condition, leads to a disordered anthropological and theological assessment of gay folk.

These heterosexual and closeted self-loathing homosexual Catholics cannot feign ignorance that their homophobia kills ... quite literally. Yet the Synod dances around this issue instead of facing it head on. It is time ... the credibility of the church is at stake ... young Catholics will not be fooled. The theological framework for the way forward has already been laid by gay Christian intellectuals such as Eugene Rogers Jr ( http://faculty.smu.edu/jmwilson/r26.pdf ) and Fr James Alison ( http://jamesalison.co.uk/ ).

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

Sure Father Harvey was mistaken and many members of Courage would admit that. To accuse all of it's members of self hatred is an ad hominem and I don't think reflects the public actions of many of the members.

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

As far as I am aware, members of "courage" are not closeted ... they have admitted that they are homosexual, and that is precisely why they are at the "courage" bootcamps. It is those LGBT folk who cannot bring themselves to admit their orientation, and who remain in the closet, who tend to be on the self loathing side of the spectrum.

"These heterosexual and closeted self-loathing homosexual Catholics cannot feign ignorance that their homophobia kills" refers to the hierarchs who teach that gay Catholics are objectively disordered and inclined to intrinsic evil, as well as to those commenting here who uncritically support such ideas. My apologies if my stream-of-consciousness writing is a tad sloppy.

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

So is not that the better path? Acknowledging their identity yet still striving to live as the church asks them?

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

But why does "the church" ask that of us? And what do you mean by "the church"? The People of God, or Joseph Ratzinger who authored the 1986 Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons? Some of us believe that being LGBT is a Blessed Gift from the Most High. As for "the church," please remember that Pope Francis told Juan Carlos Cruz: "that you are gay does not matter. God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care. The pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are." As for "the church," we read in The Tablet what the People of God want: "Most Catholics want change in approach towards LGBT people, finds poll" ... https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/10852/most-catholics-want-change-in-ap…- . Fr James Martin explains it well in his talk "How parishes can welcome L.G.B.T. Catholics" ... https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/08/23/father-james-martin-ho…

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

I’ve read Father Martins book and have some praise and criticisms of parts. More than Pope Benedict have affirmed the church’s teaching on sex and 1986 was not when it was created. A number of saints and Popes have also spoken with the same sentiment. Secondly, the Catholic Church is not a democracy though the opinions of it’s members is considered. The church is still the teacher and final say on moral questions.
I think PF’s comments could be seen as an attempt to show compassion to a singular person and not necessarily an affirmation of every aspect of his lifestyle.
It’s been good talking to you and I hope you’ve received my comments in good faith as I have yours. I don’t want to completely fill this thread completely with my own comments per America’s rules. God Bless

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

"The church is still the teacher and final say on moral questions." Please define "the church".

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

I guess I mean The Church institutional sense, especially the bishops and Pope.

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

I thought the Second Vatican Council defined the Church as the People of God ... Pope Francis recently touched on this ( see https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/10/18/pope-god-wants-change-… ): "Thanking the priest, the pope said, "I don't know what to ask from you specifically. But what needs to be done today is to accompany the church in a deep spiritual renewal," specifying that "a perversion of the church today is clericalism." Just 50 years ago, the Second Vatican Council clearly said the church is the people of God, he said, and "I know that the Lord wants the council to make headway in the church." Historians say "it takes 100 years for a council to be applied. We are halfway there," the pope said. "So, if you want to help me, do whatever it takes to move the council forward in the church. And help me with your prayer. I need so many prayers." "

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

The Church is the whole People but the teaching authority lies with the bishops and pope. Vat II does not change this.
POPE FRANCIS
“We talk about diversified' families: different types of families. But the human family as an image of God, man and woman, is only one. It is only one”
This was a quote from the pope this year. There are many quotes from Francis affirming the church’s teaching and also many quotes of him showing compassion to LGBT people as the catechism states.

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

I think that the Holy Spirit can speak through the lay faithful, who can, on occasion, teach the hierarchs a thing or three. Remember Lumen Gentium 12: "The holy people of God shares also in Christ's prophetic office ... the entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One, cannot err in matters of belief. They manifest this special property by means of the whole peoples' supernatural discernment in matters of faith when "from the Bishops down to the last of the lay faithful" they show universal agreement in matters of faith and morals."

And then there is Cardinal Newman's essay “On Consulting the Faithful in Matters of Doctrine,” which makes a compelling case for responsible dissent and the "rights" of the laity, and for development of doctrine ... providing the example of the Arian doctrine, which was supported by an Emperor, a Pope and most Bishops, but resisted by the laity. NCR has a good article on the controversy here: https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/newman-sense-and-consent-faithful

It is not always a trivial matter to distinguish between right and wrong, true and false, in an absolutist black and white fashion. Such clear-cut distinctions can be problematic, especially as weighty matters are still being worked out. Hence, I am not at all surprised that Pope Francis can appear at times as being vacillating on the hot-button issues. In tackling moral issues, Vatican II cautioned of the need to be aware of "the changeable circumstances which the subject matter, by its very nature, involves," and that it "happens rather frequently, and legitimately so, that with equal sincerity some of the faithful will disagree with others on a given matter" (Gaudium et Spes 43), we are asked in 33 to sometimes hold the tension of an unresolved issue, rather than arrive at a premature conclusion: "The Church, as guardian of the deposit of God's word, draws religious and moral principles from it, but it does not always have ready answers to particular questions."

A case in point would be the moral question of slavery. The Holy Office's 1866 instruction, signed by Pope Pius IX, answers questions raised by the vicar apostolic to the Galla in East Africa, Cardinal Massaia, who was concerned, inter alia, with the laws of Galla giving a master the right to kill a slave. The Holy Office replied: "Slavery itself, considered as such in its essential nature, is not at all contrary to the natural and divine law ... It is not contrary to the natural and divine law for a slave to be sold, bought, exchanged or given." St Pope John Paul II would later assert slavery to be intrinsically evil and objectively disordered (Veritatis Splendor 80).

I suppose that we should be extremely cautious when discerning truth, lest we fall into the trap of thinking we know fully the mind of the Ineffable God!

What impresses me most about Pope Francis is that he is open to discernment, and to being surprised by God ... and that he can openly admit to having made a mistake and changing his mind!

Nick Heckman
1 month 3 weeks ago

I think that’s an interesting point but a large number of bishops (all that I know of) and the pope still affirms the church’s teaching on sexual morality. And a it is not a majority consensus among the faithful especially outside of the west. I’ve gained a lot out of this conversation and I thank you for remaining civil. I hope you have a good week.

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

Thank you, Nick, for the interesting dialogue ... I appreciate your honesty and civility. I pray that you, too, have a blessed week ahead!

PS "New poll figures released this week in Rome show a majority of practising Catholics in the world’s eight biggest Catholic countries want the Church to adopt a more positive approach towards LGBT people and to change its teaching in this area. The polling, carried out by YouGov for the Equal Future 2018 Campaign, was conducted in Brazil, Mexico, Columbia, Philippines, United States, France, Spain and Italy. Collectively these countries comprise half of the world’s total population of baptised Catholics." https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/10852/most-catholics-want-change-in-ap…

Robert Lewis
1 month 2 weeks ago

They are, indeed, closeted, because their meetings are secret and their membership rolls are not made public. They do not attend mass together, as Dignity folks do in some dioceses. Silence=death, and not only of the physical body, but of the psyche and of the moral intelligence. "Same-sex-attracted" folks need to publicly request of the Catholic laity support in bearing their cross, as well as permission to work at developing spousal accompaniment that strives for chastity in the relationship. The way forward in this is spelled out in Alan Bray's tome, THE FRIEND, which definitively proves that the Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox Churches once provided a sacramental rite of "sworn brotherhood" for members of the same sex who wished to live with and support each other throughout their lifetimes. Their funeral effigies, representing their relationships as nearly spousal (with coats of arms united on the tombs in the same way that married couples are) are almost everywhere in the abbeys, cathedrals and churches of medieval Western and Eastern Europe. Bray has exhaustively documented this.

Andrew Wolfe
1 month 3 weeks ago

It's hard to put much credence with what you're saying — unless what you're really saying is that people with same-sex attraction are completely dependent on external validation and that their problems and suicides are other people's faults. Neither Jesus nor the Church consider disorder to be condemnation, which is why the Church constantly ministers to people with disorders — alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals. But it is not mercy to tell the alcoholic that alcohol is OK for him. It is not love to tell the criminal that his crime wasn't a crime. It is neither to tell the sinner that his sin wasn't a sin.

The constant drumbeat is that if we do not affirm what the Church teaches is disordered, we are responsible for the deaths of the disordered.

It's helpful to know the latest sophistic wordplay "natural nonpathological minority variant of the human condition"; but it comes down to the same thing: if your attractions and tendencies are dominating your life, the fact that they are related to sex is irrelevant. The claim that they are "natural" is disingenuous. Our nature has fallen and the plan of salvation is to redeem it, not to deny its fallen-ness. It doesn't matter whether it's overeating, binge-watching TV, alcohol, or pornography. It's dominates our lives apart from Christ, not any Church teaching, that "begins to destroy our very capacity to love."

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

All I can do is point to the empirical research ... see, for example, the study led by Julia Raifman (postdoctoral fellow in the Department of Epidemiology at the Bloomberg School of Public Health of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD) ... the news article "Researchers have associated gay marriage legalization with a decrease in suicide attempts among teenagers" gives a good summary of the findings at https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/315933.php while the journal article (in JAMA Pediatrics) is at https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2604258

Robert Lewis
1 month 2 weeks ago

Fine, but it must be "redeemed" out in the open, in public, and with a PUBLIC affirmation (made to the people in the pews) that there is NOTHING shameful about the condition, and that it is, perhaps, one of the most glorious "crosses" to be borne, since it may have saved the souls of such as Michelangelo Buonarotti and Gerard Manley Hopkins, and, perhaps, even of John of the Cross.

Frank T
1 month 2 weeks ago

Don't forget Leonardo DaVinci!

J Brookbank
1 month 3 weeks ago

I agree.

Andrew Wolfe
1 month 3 weeks ago

The Church's teaching demonizes no one, and you should not claim that it does. The fundamental goal for all of us is not sexual fulfillment in this life, but eternal life in a Heaven without sex. The Church's consistently merciful attitude and ministry towards criminals, even capital murderers, should be more than enough to demonstrate that the Church demonizes no one. We save the sinner by freeing him from his sin—and ourselves in the same way. If you are unwilling to separate your identity from sexual tendencies and practices that is not the Church's responsibility.

Vincent Couling
1 month 3 weeks ago

Thank you so very much for those insights, Andrew ... they help enormously! You have reminded me of the Church's consistently merciful attitude and ministry towards me and those like me. How could I be so silly as to forget! Please pardon my amnesia. As a way of saying thank you, I gift you with the following link ... please read it reflectively and prayerfully ... it is the personal testimony of a devout Catholic man, and provides insight into the very real struggles we can encounter on our pilgrim way ... https://medium.com/reaching-out/gay-and-catholic-30f7755a4726

Robert Lewis
1 month 2 weeks ago

Thank you for this. I agree that everyone commenting here needs to read it.

Frank Elliott
1 month 3 weeks ago

The Fifth Lateran Council in 1215 mandates that Jews wear characteristic clothing so that they could be distinguished form Christians. One of the most familiar implementations of this decree was the Yellow Star. This exposed skews in Christian lands to persecution and murder. Catholics also blood libeled Jews and celebrated these libels in Catholic art. For example the fictitious Blood Libel saint Hugh of Lincoln is shown on a stained glass window in Lincoln Cathedral having his throat cut by Jews wearing the same yellow star. At his particular blood libel arose because the local bishop wanted his Jewish creditor murdered. How is this not demonization and persecution?

Phillip Stone
1 month 3 weeks ago

There is no gay gene. Antenatal suffering can severely damage people.
Moral theology designates actions and beliefs as right or wrong, forbidding and teaching against murder and against certain sex acts does not label anyone, the judgement is upon the sin.
Doing sex with someone is not love, no repetition of propaganda make truth false or error truth.

Daniel Montiel
1 month 3 weeks ago

Pretending that “a gay gene” must be identified and located for human sexuality to be understood as not under a person’s / any person’s control is to create a false requirement. Everyone, of *all* orientations, can confirm that they did not choose —that NO ONE chose— the gender(s) to which they were attracted. Although every human of course chooses whom to pursue, whom to date, and whom to build a life with, human being aren’t given the choice of “which gender(s)” to find attractive in the first place!
It is sad - although not surprising - to see people like Mr. Stone pretendalie that gay people are “damaged”, that homo- or bi-sexuality is a function or result of prenatal “suffering” — indeed, anti-gays like Phillip take their roles as self-appointed-liars-about-gay-people so, so seriously that they pretend that falling in love with someone is a “sex act”. 🙄🙄

J Brookbank
1 month 3 weeks ago

Frank, I agree.

Trent Shannon
1 month 3 weeks ago

"They suggest using phrases such as “persons with same-sex attraction” instead."

Theres a very good reason why we want LGBT used. Besides not being clinical dross and a lot quicker to say, not all of us are same sex attracted. Case in point, B for Bisexual, the both sex attracted (like myself).

Long winded clinical language that isnt inclusive, or worse no recognition whatsoever, pushes things under a rug, out of the way, and is quite ignorant especially given the hate, vitriol, and pressure we get from some quarters

Daniel Montiel
1 month 3 weeks ago

Very true.

Jim Spangler
1 month 3 weeks ago

Homosexuality has no place within the Church. First of all it breaks the sixth commandment. Second, it has infected the Church over the last 60 years, and has destroyed trust and morality. Unfortunately the Dallas Accord of 2002 did not include the Bishops or Cardinals or Pope. It is so evident that abuse and cover up of abuse has been elevated throughout the hierarchy, to where homosexuality and homosexuality parties involving the hierarchy is destroying the Church's credibility. The Church can no longer be trusted, an outside committee needs to established by Laity, religious, and professionals who can expose, proscecture, and excommunicate those involved. The U. S. Justice Department starting action of a Grand Jury in Pennsylvania and Buffalo New York is great news. Hopefully all fifty states will follow. When it gets a little hot for people like Worel and Cupich you will see them being called to Vatican City in order to prevent them from being prosecuted like they did with Barnard Law after the Boston scandal. I say "thank you Lord", send Your Spirit to renew the face of the Church.

Daniel Montiel
1 month 3 weeks ago

Homosexuality and bisexuality exist both in nature and in humanity's genes - saying that the Catholic Church should pretend / lie that neither exist or that there is something wrong with either has not a *thing* to do with adultery.
I agree that it is very good that the Justice Department is investigating child abuse - your pretending / lying that the Church's crimes and sins of child abuse have *anything* to do with homosexuality or bisexuality is further reminder of how the Church will need to be on guard against your type of homophobic hatred and lies. With God's help and grace, however, we can defeat this/your bigotry's attempt to accuse and condemn the innocent.

Frank Elliott
1 month 3 weeks ago

You got one thing right. Gays have no place in the Church. It's poison. It's poison because of scum like you in the pews.

Terrance Wagner
1 month 3 weeks ago

Frank,
How kind of you! I was in the church before I was aware of being gay. One of my relatives thought I was different. Compared me to Christine Jorgenson. I was 8 years old. I went across the street and sat in back pew of St. Peter's Church. I cried and cried. I did not want to be a woman. Jesus came down and sat next to me and put his arm around me. He told me I will always be with you. Now almost 77 He is still with me and my husband. Wow you must think you know better than Jesus. He knew that I was gay so many years before I did.

Terrance Wagner
1 month 3 weeks ago

Sorry Frank I misunderstood your statement...

Terrance Wagner
1 month 3 weeks ago

Sorry Frank I misunderstood your statement...

John Mack
1 month 3 weeks ago

A beautiful story. When I was in the 4th grade the nun had us do Ignation contemplation exercises (briefly). One day, when we were putting ourselves with Jesus during the Agony in th Garden, and Jesus said, "Let this cup pass," I saw what he was looking at in the future, all the hatred and violence that woiulbe done i his name. My immediate respio nse was, "Why are you showing me this, I'm just a little boy?" My thought out response was that there was no reason for Jesus to reveal himself to me and my vision was simply my imagination. But I dtill thought the vision was sadly accurate.

Kester Ratcliff
1 month 3 weeks ago

How the Church's responses to LGBTI and women and people who don't fit or aren't willing to fit into a fundamentally hierarchical idea of morality will change is inherently related to the most profound issues with how to keep the communion together genuinely in quality and quantity. Some right-wing American Catholics are extremely obsessed with this issue because it symbolises their fundamentally different attitude to what morality is. "Natural ordering" to them isn't teleological as it was for Aquinas (and I disagree with Aquinas on this too, but that's a much subtler difference) but hierarchical, so anyone lower in the hierarchy deviating from obedience to traditional authorities is essentially "sinful" and anyone higher up can violate subordinates with impunity. They may practice it more moderately than is usually expected with this term, but I believe that's essentially the moral worldview of fascism, not Catholicism. Historically, they have been muddled up for some people many times before.

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
1 month 3 weeks ago

"We take people where they are, walking with them, moving forward."
Amen.
|
"We are all sinners."
What does this have to do, specifically, with LGBT?

Frank Elliott
1 month 3 weeks ago

I agree with your question.

what does your Ph.D., or mine, have to do with this discussion?

Frank Elliott
1 month 3 weeks ago

I agree with your question.

what does your Ph.D., or mine, have to do with this discussion?

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
1 month 3 weeks ago

It is rather pretentious, isn't it.
I'll drop it.
Thanks

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
1 month 3 weeks ago

There...
Better now?

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
1 month 3 weeks ago

Trying again...

Frank Elliott
1 month 3 weeks ago

Congratulations on your Ph. D. by the way! I wasn’t there to tell you when you earned it.

Roland Greystoke
1 month 3 weeks ago

The only teaching needed is to tell children that being gay is wrong. If you haven't read the book, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90s, then you need to. The 'acceptance' of the gay community was a well-orchestrated propaganda operation. I have been told that being gay is a choice. If so, then it is always the wrong choice, much like suicide. The day I see a straight father go to see his newborn son for the first time, and say, "I hope he's gay.", then I just might, maybe, start considering that I could be wrong. But I am not holding my breath.

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