Cardinal Leonardo Ulrich Steiner, O.F.M, 74, was one of the seven Brazilian cardinals who voted in the conclave that elected Pope Leo XIV, a man he knew already from the Synod on Synodality.
In this interview with America’s Vatican correspondent on May 16, he described Pope Leo as a man “who knows how to listen, does not interrupt you, and is affable when he speaks,” and who, in continuity with Pope Francis, will continue to promote synodality in the church.
Cardinal Steiner was born in 1950 into a family of German origin in Forquilhinhas in the Brazilian state of Santa Catarina. After gaining his licentiate and doctorate in philosophy at the Pontifical Antonianum University in Rome, he took vows as a member of the Franciscan order of Friars Minor in 1976 and was ordained a priest by his cousin, Cardinal Paulo Evaristo Arns, in 1978. After serving as professor and secretary-general at the Pontifical University of St. Anthony in Rome, he returned to Brazil in 2003 to work in a parish. John Paul II appointed him bishop in 2005. He served as secretary general of the Brazilian Bishops’ Conference from 2011 to 2019. Pope Francis appointed him as Archbishop of Manaus in the Amazon in 2019, a diocese with over two million people, and made him cardinal in 2022. He saw the red hat as a tribute by Pope Francis to the indigenous peoples of the Amazon and their cultures, of which the cardinal is a strong defender.
The following interview, conducted mainly in Spanish, was edited for clarity and length.
This was your first conclave. What was the experience like?
It was my first conclave and certainly the last, because long life to the pope!
The conclave is a very profound experience of faith. We began in the Pauline Chapel with [the prayer] “In the name of the Father and of the Son,” and immediately after we began [singing] the litany of all the saints, and [as we sang] the litany we entered the Sistine Chapel in procession. All that touched me very much, because you could see that it was not just us, and it was not just any vote; rather, it was an expression of the whole church. Immediately after the litany of the saints we invoked the Veni Creator [Come Holy Spirit] and after [singing] that we took the oath. This is all as in the rite for the conclave.
To think that we were standing there in an act on behalf of the church was for me something profoundly moving and emotional. It was also a liturgical act with singing, silence and prayer. You realize that you are looking for the successor of Peter, not for a politician. This was something I felt very strongly.
Did you expect the conclave to elect the first American-Peruvian pope?
I did not look at it that way. I already knew Cardinal Prevost before he became pope because we were at the synod together, we met several times, and I was in a working group with him: Group 7, working on the issue of the election of bishops. He was part of that group and I could have thought then [that he was papabile] but I wasn’t thinking about that then. But when Pope Francis passed away, then of course one started thinking.
So you thought he had the qualities to be pope?
Yes, because he’s a man who knows how to listen and when he speaks, he speaks precisely. He never interrupts you. He’s always very affable when he speaks. When he speaks, he does so in a thoughtful way, searching for truth. I think others noticed this too. But what impressed me most was the fact that he was a missionary bishop who had worked in Peru. He was there ten years as bishop, and was elected vice president of the Peruvian Bishops’ Conference, and he was present at some meetings of the Latin American bishops, though he was not so well known then.
Think about it! An American Augustinian who was a missionary bishop and was called by the pope [to come to work in the Vatican’s Dicastery for Bishops]. I heard that it was very difficult for him to accept this.
They said he had wanted to stay in Peru.
I think it was this missionary spirit—what Jesus says at the end of the synoptic Gospels, and it was what was looked at more than anything else [in the conclave].
When he was superior of the Augustinians, he visited Brazil.
I think he went to different cities—to São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Belo Horizonte because there are several Augustinian groups in Brazil. He has been to Brazil over and over again because he was superior general for twelve years.
I presume that you had a chance to speak with him during the General Congregations before entering the conclave?
Yes, because there are breaks during the sessions, and we can have a cappuccino, and these times are interesting because you could also get to know people. I did not know so many cardinals, I knew mostly those who were from my year of being made cardinal and, of course, those who had participated in the synod, and I knew him.
Were you surprised at the speed by which the conclave discerned who should be the pope?
Those who were inside should not be surprised. It was a process of listening, because at meals we could talk to each other. Also in the voting at bishops conferences, the election goes rapidly, and one sees already in the second or third votes [who will be elected].
When he was elected, and dressed in white as pope, and all the cardinals went to greet him, what did you say?
I thanked him for accepting.
Many cardinals said the same. Why?
Because almost no one wanted to be pope. It is almost unimaginable in today's situation to have such a demanding ministry. I thanked him for accepting [the election] and I told him we are happy to have a missionary as pope.
What would you say to those who say he is not in continuity with Francis because when he came out on the central balcony of St. Peter’s for the first time he wore the red mozzetta (or cape over the shoulders), like Benedict XVI did?
There is always a continuity in the church in the last popes since John XXIII. Since the Second Vatican Council until today there is a continuity but there is also a discontinuity. Each pope has his own personality, his own background, past history and his own way of being. That is natural. We cannot think that we have another Pope Francis, with his way and manner. No, the new pope is different but [Pope Leo] will have continuity [with Francis] for example, with synodality.
It is said that those who were once touched by the poor will never be the same. Do you think this will be true of Leo?
I, like he, went as a bishop among the poor and the poor convert us, they show us a path to freedom. They know how to live with little, but at the same time they have a deep, very deep faith, a living faith, a faith that is experienced.
What is your main challenge as a bishop?
I usually say that the challenge of the church today is not understanding that in this moment there is a way of thinking that is almost technological. If you take medicine, it solves the problem, right? This way of thinking has also entered faith and the process of faith. But the process of faith is very different.
This way of thinking has also entered the church, and we have difficulty in overcoming it. For example, we think that doing sufficient pastoral planning is enough to revitalize the church, but that does not guarantee it. You must organize, but the personal experience, the community experience of coming together to discuss, to reflect, to pray together is a long process, and this is a very great challenge for our time.
Pope Leo touched a little on this already, but as a church I think all of us not only have to take this [artificial intelligence] seriously and to look at the bottom of it all, but also see how it is present in war, in violence, and so on. And so we need to look deeper. Sometimes I feel that we tend to think things too fast when we need to listen more.
I have the impression that we are in a time of transition, like in the Middle Ages, which was also a [time of] crisis. Then, even in the Middle Ages all these groups rose up, and a year later many were condemned as heretics, but at the same time there were Francis of Assisi and Dominic, who founded religious orders—the Franciscans and the Dominicans—that reformed the church. In this time of crisis we have had a Jesuit pope, from an order that wanted to reform the church, and now a pope from the Augustinian order.
Pope Leo called all the cardinals together for a meeting that lasted two hours or more. What can you say about this?
He spoke first, and after a moment of silence gave us the opportunity to talk to each other and ask questions. What struck me about this was that in the General Congregations we asked that the new pope bring the cardinals together at least once a year, so that we can get to know each other, but also so that we may support him.
So, after his election, he immediately gathered all the cardinals together. He spoke for a while, and asked for a moment of silence afterwards, and then each one of us was to talk to the three or more cardinals closest to them.
This was interesting because you get to hear from churches all over the world and this diversity of cultures that we have today is a richness in the church, of which I stand in admiration. In the synod, for example, they talked at the same table about culture, and how you understand the church, and how you understood the Gospel. If a man listens, he will be able to understand the diversity of cultures. For example, in the Amazon they have many different cultures because each indigenous people has their own culture, their own language. And when you have 30 different tribes, there are different cultures, different languages. I feel the diversity because we have indigenous people who are seminarians in our seminary and they think [very] differently among themselves. And when you reason with each other, they make this effort to see if they can understand each other’s culture. If Pope Leo continues to bring the cardinals together like this, I think we will also have a better chance to make a contribution to his pontificate.
There was a suggestion that the new pope have a council of heads of Vatican offices, and conduct regular meetings with the heads of the different dicasteries.
It seems to me that Pope Francis did this, but it is also very important [for the new pope]. So I say, why not? Why not bring them together several times, because this is how you hear what is happening in the dicasteries that are serving the church. We do this too in the diocese.
Was age a key factor in deciding who should be pope?
I don't think this came up. I had the feeling that what was important was that [cardinals] wanted a continuity of the presence of the church in society and in different cultures, they wanted a word of peace and a word of hope. Pope Francis was present in this way, and already with his way of being I think Pope Leo will be also.
What do you hope for in the church with the new pope over the next year?
He must feel free. He must feel free to serve the church. This is not up to us. But if he continues as he did in the Diocese of Chiclayo, we will be on a good track.
Francis was obviously a free man; do you see Leo as free like him?
I see that he is a free man, in another way. He listens, later he says what he wants to. Francis was more spontaneous, Leo is a little more in his own way, but he is also a free man.
