In an interview on Mexican television that first got attention for his comments about former cardinal Theodore McCarrick, Pope Francis condemned Donald Trump’s “cruel” immigration policies, delivering a sharp rebuke to a president whose anti-immigrant rhetoric has defined his time in office.
In the past Pope Francis has denounced “wall building” and urged political leaders around the world to “build bridges.” But these admonishments have tended to be more general, with the pope sidestepping direct criticism of Mr. Trump. This time, fielding a question about conditions at the U.S. border, the pope railed against the current U.S. immigration policy of separating children from their parents as an act that is against natural rights.
“It falls into the greatest cruelty,” he said. “To defend what? The territory, or the economy of the country, or who knows what?”
“We already know one wall,” the pope said, “the Berlin Wall that brought us enough headaches and enough suffering…. But it seems that man does what animals do not do, doesn’t it? Man is the only animal that falls twice into the same hole.
“It falls into the greatest cruelty,” he said. “To defend what? The territory, or the economy of the country, or who knows what?”
“We’re back to the same, right? The building of walls as if that were a defense.” Pope Francis advised that true security can be discovered in dialogue, development, hospitality, education and integration. “In this I do not mean only the border of Mexico,” he added. “I speak of all the barriers that there are.”
When the interviewer, Valentina Alazaraki, asked the pope what he would tell Mr. Trump if they were alone together, in a room with no cameras, he replied: “The same. Because I say this in public!… I also said in public that the one who builds walls ends up a prisoner of the walls he constructs.
“Instead,” he said, “those who build bridges make friends, shake hands, even if they stay on the other side.”
The pope also spoke with Ms. Alazaraki about his relationships with foreign leaders. He said he tries to “find something good in everyone,” including those politicians with whom he disagrees.
“Gossip is a universal defect, and it applies to everyone,” Pope Francis said, “to rulers, non-rulers, children, young people, men, women, everyone. They say that women are more gossipy: Rubbish! Men are also gossips.” In the Roman Curia, the pope has distributed a pamphlet titled “Don’t speak badly of others.”
The pope also spoke with Ms. Alazaraki about his relationships with foreign leaders. He said he tries to “find something good in everyone,” including those politicians with whom he disagrees.
Asked about church teaching on homosexuality, the pope emphasized his belief that we are all God’s children, reiterating that families must love and include all of their children. He vehemently denied ever having said that young people trying to understand if they had “a homosexual tendency” should see a psychiatrist. But, he added, that “doesn’t mean I approve homosexual acts, far from it.” He said his position on homosexuality remained “conservative,” clarifying that church doctrine remains unchanged despite his famous comment on gay priests, “Who am I to judge?” in 2013.
Ms. Alazaraki also asked about the pope’s interactions with marginalized people, citing conversations with a transgender man and a divorced Argentine woman. “You grabbed the phone and called a divorced Argentine woman, and then she leaves saying: ‘The pope told me that I can go to communion’… and the priests put their hands on their heads and say, ‘And now what do I do?’ because the doctrine has not changed, shall we say. So, how do you handle these situations?”
In response, the pope said, “Sometimes people, for the enthusiasm of being received, say more things than the pope said; let’s keep that in mind.”
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