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Brandon SanchezOctober 16, 2018
The tête-à-tête between Paul Krugman and Nancy Pelosi in Manhattan was like a documentary about a once-popular rock band. (Rod Morata/Michael Priest Photography)The tête-à-tête between Paul Krugman and Nancy Pelosi in Manhattan was like a documentary about a once-popular rock band. (Rod Morata/Michael Priest Photography)

At the 92nd Street Y on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, the mood was light, the crowd was effusive and Nancy and Paul were beaming—that’s Nancy Pelosi (leader of the Democratic Party, for now in the minority, in the U.S. House) and Paul Krugman (the New York Times columnist).

“Imagine it’s January 2021,” said Mr. Krugman, “and the Democrats control both houses, and President Michael Avenatti—” The audience, a mostly silver-haired, bespectacled bunch presumably hoping for a Blue Wave this November, howled. (Mr. Krugman quickly added that “Taylor Swift would be too young” to run for president in 2020.) What, Mr. Krugman asked, would be on the party’s agenda?

Ms. Pelosi pivoted toward 2019, about which she said she was more concerned at the moment. It was Oct. 14, and the midterm elections were only three weeks away.

“We are for the people,” Ms. Pelosi proclaimed, listing goals like reducing prescription drug prices, increasing wages, protecting Dreamers, passing gun-control legislation and working toward campaign finance reform. (The last one prompted the loudest and longest cheers.)

“We are for the people,” Ms. Pelosi proclaimed, listing goals like reducing prescription drug prices, increasing wages and working toward campaign finance reform.

Advertised as a reflection on finding “a path forward,” the Pelosi-Krugman tête-à-tête turned out to be more of a retrospective, like a documentary about a once-popular rock band. Welcomed by enthusiastic applause, Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Krugman exchanged compliments and said how glad they were to be sitting across from each other.

“This is a huge honor for me…. I’m nervous,” said Mr. Krugman.

They talked about Ms. Pelosi’s tenure as Speaker of the House between 2007 and 2011, including the passage of the Affordable Care Act and the bailout of the U.S. financial system. Ms. Pelosi favorably compared not only Barack Obama but Republican presidents George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reagan to the current occupant of the Oval Office, whose name she almost could not bring herself to say. When she did, it looked as though she had just swallowed an especially pungent teaspoon of Robitussin.

In the nearly two years that Donald Trump has been president, appeals to “normalcy” have consistently informed congressional reception of the administration, placing Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans in the same rhetorical ballpark, if not on the same side of the voting line. Democrats’ distaste for the president has inspired reassessments of previous Republican administrations. Figures once assailed by liberal lawmakers have enjoyed a reputational renaissance.

In 2008, for instance, Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama spent part of a primary debate lambasting Mr. Reagan’s presidency, calling his economic policies “bad ideas for America.” But at the 92nd Street Y, Ms. Pelosi said Mr. Reagan “is the president I quote the most” on the campaign trail. She attributed this line to him: “Newcomers make America more American.” The audience nodded forcefully in agreement.

Ms. Pelosi said Mr. Reagan “is the president I quote the most” on the campaign trail. She attributed this line to him: “Newcomers make America more American.”

The second President Bush—who left the White House with a 22 percent approval rating—looks better in hindsight, said Mr. Krugman. And Ms. Pelosi lauded Mr. Bush’s handling of the financial crisis. Once the economy “had gone down to the gates of hell,” she said, Mr. Bush helped to whip up votes for the $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, which passed thanks to votes from Ms. Pelosi’s Democratic caucus.

Asked by Mr. Krugman how she thinks the current government would handle a crisis of that magnitude, Ms. Pelosi turned to the audience and widened her eyes. “That’s scary,” she said, to a few knots of awkward laughter.

Ms. Pelosi also urged a return to “civility,” to the chagrin of intraparty dissenters (within Congress and without) who say it is not going to happen. “Some Democrats don’t like me saying that,” she sighed. “E pluribus unum…. [The Founding Fathers] couldn’t possibly imagine how many we would become.”

Getting back to the Obama administration, Ms. Pelosi praised the nuns who endorsed Obamacare and worked toward its passage. “Thank God for the nuns,” said Ms. Pelosi, who said that the bishops were less helpful and added, “I’m a Catholic—I can say that.”

“Thank God for the nuns,” said Ms. Pelosi, who said that the bishops were less helpful and added, “I’m a Catholic—I can say that.”

Mr. Krugman said there was one question he had requested permission from Ms. Pelosi’s staff to ask: “What do you do to decompress?”

“After I read your column?” responded Ms. Pelosi with a grin. She does the New York Times crossword puzzle, and she likes to read, “even when [reporters] write terrible articles about me.”

When Mr. Krugman brought up the high number of women running for elected office this year, Ms. Pelosi recounted her rise through Congress—invoking the term “marble ceiling,” which she has used to describe the “pecking order” and old boys’ club that sustained men’s congressional leadership.

This election cycle, Ms. Pelosi has been a constant presence in Republican campaign ads. President Trump, who in the past week has campaigned for Republicans in Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Ohio and Florida, has tagged Democratic congressional candidates as “Pelosi puppet[s].” On Oct. 15, Representative Dave Brat, Republican of Virginia, mentioned Ms. Pelosi 21 times in his hour-and-a-half-long debate with his Democratic challenger, Abigail Spanberger.

“I’m an effective legislator, I’m an effective political force,” said Ms. Pelosi to Mr. Krugman, who alluded to her status as “G.O.P. boogeywoman.”

“God willing,” said a circumspect Ms. Pelosi, the Democrats will retake Congress. (In spite of recent prognostications, she does not buy that the Senate is unwinnable.) “We don’t agonize,” she told the crowd, “we organize.”

“You are the V.I.P.s!,” she said. “Volunteers. In. Politics!”

How, asked one audience member, can they assure that Ms. Pelosi becomes Speaker of the House again?

In response, she dispensed some advice about strategy. “Own the ground,” said Ms. Pelosi several times. Although she has heard that “people are excited, they’re ready to vote,” she does not want to count her chickens before they hatch.

Wary of using the phrase “Blue Wave,” she opted instead for “many drops of water.” She also made use of an Olympics metaphor, noting a hierarchy of distinctions—“gold, silver, bronze, happy to be an Olympian.”

Ms. Pelosi ended with, “We’re going for the gold!” And the crowd went wild.

Comments are automatically closed two weeks after an article's initial publication. See our comments policy for more.
Kevin Murphy
5 years 5 months ago

Why is this being covered, other than America's love for pro-choice Democratic politicians? Can't sweep Pelosi's 100% NARAL rating under the rug, no matter how hard you try.

Janis Spenser
5 years 5 months ago

Nancy Pelosi is old school, but she is smart, tough, shrewd and disciplined. She is also one of the best fundraisers in the Democratic party. There is no doubt of what Pelosi achieved.

James Schwarzwalder
5 years 5 months ago

Another conundrum spun out from the depths of America Magazine's stable of writers. You covered the equivalent of a high school pep rally! It would have been more entertaining if Representative Maxine Waters had been there. Renewal time again. Just got your letter. Hmm? Maybe its time to go for the printed version of the National Catholic Register delivered to my door. You were not in Judge Kavanaugh's platoon, or at least you sure did not have his back, so I guess its time for America Magazine to shine the spotlight on Dem Dem's. Equal time doctrine, I suppose.

Steve Quehl
5 years 5 months ago

For America the Nation: Liberal and Liberaler.
For America the Magazine: Dumb and Dumber.
Tone deaf. Goodbye.

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