Pope Leo raised the question of genocide in Gaza and spoke about how he intends to engage with China over the coming years in a three-hour interview with Elise Ann Allen, the senior correspondent of Crux, the full text of which was released today, Sept. 18. The interview was conducted for Ms. Allen’s biography of the pope, Leo XIV: Citizen of the World, Missionary of the XXI Century, also published today in Spanish with Penguin Peru; English and Portuguese editions are expected soon.
In the wide-ranging interview, conducted in two sessions on July 10 and July 30, the pope responded to questions on many other topics, including the role of women in the church, his approach to the L.G.B.T.Q. community and to the traditionalists who want access to the pre-Vatican II liturgy, and how he thinks the church should respond to artificial intelligence. In a notable section, he talked about how he, as the first pope from the United States, envisages relating to President Donald Trump, with whom he has not yet spoken.
[In new biography, Pope Leo weighs in on Trump, LGBTQ Catholics and the Latin Mass]
In the interview, the first Augustinian pope gave some insights into how he intends to govern the Catholic Church in the coming years. He made clear that he intends to follow and consolidate the main paths of reform begun by Pope Francis, including reforms to the Roman Curia and Vatican finances, and to continue promoting synodality. At the same time, he said, “I’m trying not to continue to polarize or promote polarization in the church.” His aim, as he said in some of his early talks after his election, is to work for “unity and peace” in the church and the world.
Speaking of leadership, he said, “A leader who’s walking by himself isn’t leading anyone, but if a leader is capable of bringing people together with himself or herself and moving forward, I think that’s a lot more effective.”
He revealed that he sees “there’s still a huge learning curve ahead of me” in understanding his role and mission as pope. He said he finds “the pastoral part” of the papal ministry relatively easy but finds being a world leader much more challenging. “I don’t see my primary role as trying to be the solver of the world’s problems,” he said. “I don’t see my role as that at all, really, although I think that the church has a voice, a message that needs to continue to be preached, to be spoken and spoken loudly.”
In excerpts of the interview released on Sept. 14, Pope Leo shared his thoughts on the war in Ukraine. In today’s full transcript, Leo described how he is thinking about the tragic situation in Gaza and how he intends to engage with the People’s Republic of China.
Gaza: ‘We can’t grow numb.’
The American-born pope expressed “great concern” about the humanitarian situation in Gaza and noted that many people are saying “genocide” is happening there. “We can’t grow numb, and we can’t ignore this,” he said.
Asked what hope he sees for an end to the conflict in Gaza, where 2.1 million Palestinians are living in dire conditions, Leo noted that despite pressure and clear statements from third parties, including the United States, “there has not been a clear response in terms of finding effective ways to alleviate the suffering of the people, the innocent people in Gaza.”
Pope Francis raised the question of genocide in Gaza in the interview book Hope Never Disappoints, published on Nov. 11, 2024, when he said: “According to some experts…what is happening in Gaza has the characteristics of a genocide. It should be carefully investigated to determine whether it fits into the technical definition formulated by jurists and international bodies.” His remark drew a harsh response from Israel at the time.
“The word genocide is being thrown around more and more,” Leo noted in the interview. “Officially,” he said, “the Holy See does not believe that we can make any declaration at this time about that. There’s a very technical definition about what genocide might be, but more and more people are raising the issue, including two human rights groups in Israel [that] have made that statement.” (Reports from two leading human rights organizations in Israel, B’Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights, have accused Israel of committing genocide in Gaza. )
“It’s just so horrible to see the images that we see on television; hopefully something will turn this around. Hopefully, we won’t grow numb,” the pope said. “That’s sort of a human response because you can only stand so much pain.” But Christians, he said, “have to continue to push, to try and make a change there.”
Since becoming pope, he has spoken out several times about the situation in Gaza, including at his public audience yesterday, Sept. 17. Like Francis, he has also spoken to the Rev. Gabriel Romanelli, the parish priest of the Holy Family Catholic compound in Gaza. Along with two other priests, five nuns and the 450 people taking refuge in the compound, Father Romanelli has decided to remain there, defying Israeli orders to evacuate.
Promoting unity in China
Turning to China, a major player on the global scene, interviewer Elise Ann Allen recalled that Pope Francis and many of his predecessors had adopted an “Ostpolitik approach” to China. She asked Leo how he intended to engage with China.
He confessed that he does not yet know how he will approach this delicate but very important relationship, but added: “I would say that in the short term, I will continue the policy that the Holy See has followed for some years now…. I in no way pretend to be wiser or more experienced than all those who have come before me.”
Vatican policy toward China took a significant turn under Pope Francis in September 2018, with the signing in Beijing of the Provisional Agreement on the nomination of bishops. Cardinal Stephen Chow of Hong Kong, who had a private audience with Leo XIV on Sept. 3, told his diocesan newspaper, “He recognizes the importance of dialogue between the church and the mainland authorities and considers respectful communication as the priority in addressing challenges in China-Vatican relations.”
In the interview, Pope Leo revealed:
I’m also in ongoing dialogue with a number of people, Chinese, on both sides of some of the issues that are there. I’m trying to get a clearer understanding of how the church can continue the church’s mission, respecting both culture and political issues that have obviously great importance, but also respecting a significant group of Chinese Catholics who for many years have lived some kind of oppression or difficulty in living their faith freely, and without choosing sides.
There are some 12 million Catholics in mainland China today, and about half of them belong to the unofficial church. Pope Leo appears keen to do what he can to overcome the divisions and to promote unity among the Catholic communities in China.
Leo is the first pope to have visited China. He went there once when he was prior general of the Augustinians to visit the friars of his order, so he gained some knowledge of the situation there before becoming pope.
He concluded his remarks about China by saying: “It’s a very difficult situation. In the long term, I don’t pretend to say this is what I will and will not do, but after two months, I’ve already begun having discussions at several levels on that topic.” His remark confirms that he wishes to listen to the various views and reflect before making any new decision in this field. He is not in a rush. He celebrated his 70th birthday on Sept. 14; time is on his side.
This article appears in November 2025.
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