Cardinals: L.G.B.T. issues part of youth synod discussion

 10.17.2018 Pope Francis greets Cardinal Blase J. Cupich of Chicago before a session of the Synod of Bishops on young people, the faith and vocational discernment at the Vatican Oct. 16. (CNS photo/Vatican Media)10.17.2018 Pope Francis greets Cardinal Blase J. Cupich of Chicago before a session of the Synod of Bishops on young people, the faith and vocational discernment at the Vatican Oct. 16. (CNS photo/Vatican Media)

With opinion polls consistently showing that young people are accepting of same-sex marriage and other rights for L.G.B.T. people, there were questions how the ongoing synod of bishops focused on young adults might approach the subject. In the early part of the nearly month-long meeting, one U.S. archbishop made headlines when he suggested that there is no such thing as “L.G.B.T. Catholics,” setting off a debate over whether the final document produced by the global meeting should include the phrase.

The issue has not been a primary topic inside the synod hall, but at a press conference in Rome on Saturday, three archbishops responded to questions from journalists by saying the topic has arisen and that the young adult delegates have largely urged church leaders to be more welcoming to L.G.B.T. people and their families.

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“We take people where they are, walking with them, moving forward,” Cardinal Blase Cupich said.

“We have to make sure that we don’t put obstacles in the face of God’s grace. We take people where they are, walking with them, moving forward,” Cardinal Blase Cupich said in response to a question. “Sometimes in that journey they stray or they take a step back, but we’re still with them in order to keep that journey going.”

Pope Francis handpicked Cardinal Cupich, who heads the Archdiocese of Chicago, to attend the meeting, which is beginning to wrap up its work in preparing a final document to submit to the pope next week.

Another synod delegate, Cardinal John Ribat of Papua New Guinea, said that the young people present at the synod talk about L.G.B.T. issues “freely,” urging church leaders to address L.G.B.T. people in their preferred way. He said the lay delegates “are really helping us to understand, to really see where they are at, and how they [want] to be heard, recognized and accepted.”

And Australian Archbishop Peter Comensoli suggested that L.G.B.T. Catholics should not be singled out.

“Very simply, aren’t we all sinners? And aren’t we all looking to be found by God? And being found by God, how we might then find our lives in him?” he asked.

Responding to another question later, the archbishop added that it is important for church leaders to respond in a Christian way to members of the L.G.B.T. community.

“When my friends who might be homosexual or lesbian or struggling with their gender, when I speak with them, I speak with them with the friendship of Christ as I ought to, and as a friend I say, how do we progress together toward the foot of the cross?” he said.

Some Catholic bishops have advocated inside the synod that the church not use the phrase “L.G.B.T.,” a preferred acronym by many gay, lesbian and transgender people, because it connotes a political ideology. They suggest using phrases such as “persons with same-sex attraction” instead.

Earlier this month, Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia said during his presentation, “There is no such thing as an ‘LGBTQ Catholic’ or a ‘transgender Catholic’ or a ‘heterosexual Catholic,’ as if our sexual appetites defined who we are; as if these designations described discrete communities of differing but equal integrity within the real ecclesial community, the body of Jesus Christ.”

Reports released on Saturday show that members of the English-language working groups are grappling with how to address L.G.B.T. issues. One group wrote, “no one, on account of gender, lifestyle, or sexual orientation, should ever be made to feel unloved,” but added, “and this is why authentic love by no means excludes the call to conversion, to change of life.” Another group proposed the creation of a new document about ministering to L.G.B.T. people.

According to Crux, one of the German-language groups reported, “We want a serious discussion with young people in the Church on issues of sexuality and partnership,” while a Spanish-speaking group called for the church to accompany all people, “including those of different sexual orientations, so that they can grow in faith and in their relationship with God.”

The topic of sexuality had been raised earlier in the week as well.

Archbishop Matteo Zuppi, head of the Archdiocese of Bologna, said in a press conference on Oct. 18 that pastoral care for L.G.B.T. people is “an important topic” but he warned against making it “an ideological problem.”

And Silvia Retamales, a lay delegate from Chile to the synod, said in a press conference on Oct. 15 that gay people “should feel as children of God, not as problems” in the church.

“The church has to be more inclusive,” she said.

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Nick Heckman
7 months ago

It's an important question that needs to be settled but a ministry that denies the church's longstanding teaching on sex is no ministry at all. Whether talking to LGBT or young people or remarried or seminarians I think the ambiguity around church teaching on sex is really harmful.

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

I think Father Martins book does a good job to call out those who are actively hurtful to LGBT but refusal to present the church's teaching on sexuality is sophistry.

Frank Elliott
7 months ago

The Church's longstanding teaching on sex is reprehensible not because it demands abstinence from gay people but because it teaches them that their ability to love someone more than themselves is a tendency toward evil. That demonization drives gay Catholics to suicide. Gays and lesbians in religious traditions that demonize them are 40-50% more likely to commit suicide. As a cradle Catholic who was BORN GAY, who was educated by Jesuits, and who abstained from sex, I can that the Church is poison to gay people no matter how they live their lives.

The Church's teaching idolizes heterosexuals and heterosexuality and demonizes gays. If that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself then f#ck you.

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

I would refute that a sex act is the pinnacle of what love is. A young woman (who identifies as "same sex attracted") and member of Courage International recently had a very good twitter thread that argued to tell LGBT that they can not live as the church ask is to say that Christ's resurrection has won over some things, but not over lust.

I think the way members of the church have treated some LGBT is pretty reprehensible but as one of the speakers at the Youth Synod said the church calls LGBT to hold themselves to the same standards heterosexuals in extra marital relationships. (I would say the church could do a better job directing people in these relationships as well). Many of the speakers at the synod have also said the church needs to be welcoming to LGBT peoples, but not at the expense of church teaching. (English Group D).

Frank Elliott
7 months ago

Only a pervert would assume that I was talking about a sex act. I don’t have sex. I do show sacrificial love.

The Church is shit because of people like you.

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

My apologies then. I misinterpreted your earlier comment as referring to sex.

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

"the Church is poison to gay people no matter how they live their lives" ... Frank, you cut to the very heart of the matter. As a gay Catholic, I have precisely the same experience. We are taught to be at war with our sexuality ... being told that it is an objective disorder, and an inclination to intrinsic evil. Avoiding even the chance of developing romantic love relationships inevitably affects all of our love relationships. My experience is that begins to destroy our very capacity to love ... it disintegrates us, impoverishes us, hollows us out and destroys so very many of us ... the suicide data bear this out.

These people who look to the so-called "courage" apostolate should examine the skeletons in the apostolate's closet ... "Courage founder pushed bishops to resist zero tolerance on abuse" at https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2018/10/08/courage-founder-pushed-bishops-to-resist-zero-tolerance-on-abuse/ . Denying constitutional homosexuality, i.e. that being gay is a perfectly natural nonpathological minority variant of the human condition, leads to a disordered anthropological and theological assessment of gay folk.

These heterosexual and closeted self-loathing homosexual Catholics cannot feign ignorance that their homophobia kills ... quite literally. Yet the Synod dances around this issue instead of facing it head on. It is time ... the credibility of the church is at stake ... young Catholics will not be fooled. The theological framework for the way forward has already been laid by gay Christian intellectuals such as Eugene Rogers Jr ( http://faculty.smu.edu/jmwilson/r26.pdf ) and Fr James Alison ( http://jamesalison.co.uk/ ).

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

Sure Father Harvey was mistaken and many members of Courage would admit that. To accuse all of it's members of self hatred is an ad hominem and I don't think reflects the public actions of many of the members.

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

As far as I am aware, members of "courage" are not closeted ... they have admitted that they are homosexual, and that is precisely why they are at the "courage" bootcamps. It is those LGBT folk who cannot bring themselves to admit their orientation, and who remain in the closet, who tend to be on the self loathing side of the spectrum.

"These heterosexual and closeted self-loathing homosexual Catholics cannot feign ignorance that their homophobia kills" refers to the hierarchs who teach that gay Catholics are objectively disordered and inclined to intrinsic evil, as well as to those commenting here who uncritically support such ideas. My apologies if my stream-of-consciousness writing is a tad sloppy.

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

So is not that the better path? Acknowledging their identity yet still striving to live as the church asks them?

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

But why does "the church" ask that of us? And what do you mean by "the church"? The People of God, or Joseph Ratzinger who authored the 1986 Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons? Some of us believe that being LGBT is a Blessed Gift from the Most High. As for "the church," please remember that Pope Francis told Juan Carlos Cruz: "that you are gay does not matter. God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care. The pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are." As for "the church," we read in The Tablet what the People of God want: "Most Catholics want change in approach towards LGBT people, finds poll" ... https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/10852/most-catholics-want-change-in-approach-towards-lgbt-people-finds-poll- . Fr James Martin explains it well in his talk "How parishes can welcome L.G.B.T. Catholics" ... https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/08/23/father-james-martin-how-parishes-can-welcome-lgbt-catholics

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

I’ve read Father Martins book and have some praise and criticisms of parts. More than Pope Benedict have affirmed the church’s teaching on sex and 1986 was not when it was created. A number of saints and Popes have also spoken with the same sentiment. Secondly, the Catholic Church is not a democracy though the opinions of it’s members is considered. The church is still the teacher and final say on moral questions.
I think PF’s comments could be seen as an attempt to show compassion to a singular person and not necessarily an affirmation of every aspect of his lifestyle.
It’s been good talking to you and I hope you’ve received my comments in good faith as I have yours. I don’t want to completely fill this thread completely with my own comments per America’s rules. God Bless

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

"The church is still the teacher and final say on moral questions." Please define "the church".

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

I guess I mean The Church institutional sense, especially the bishops and Pope.

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

I thought the Second Vatican Council defined the Church as the People of God ... Pope Francis recently touched on this ( see https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/10/18/pope-god-wants-change-church-stricken-perversion-clericalism ): "Thanking the priest, the pope said, "I don't know what to ask from you specifically. But what needs to be done today is to accompany the church in a deep spiritual renewal," specifying that "a perversion of the church today is clericalism." Just 50 years ago, the Second Vatican Council clearly said the church is the people of God, he said, and "I know that the Lord wants the council to make headway in the church." Historians say "it takes 100 years for a council to be applied. We are halfway there," the pope said. "So, if you want to help me, do whatever it takes to move the council forward in the church. And help me with your prayer. I need so many prayers." "

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

The Church is the whole People but the teaching authority lies with the bishops and pope. Vat II does not change this.
POPE FRANCIS
“We talk about diversified' families: different types of families. But the human family as an image of God, man and woman, is only one. It is only one”
This was a quote from the pope this year. There are many quotes from Francis affirming the church’s teaching and also many quotes of him showing compassion to LGBT people as the catechism states.

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

I think that the Holy Spirit can speak through the lay faithful, who can, on occasion, teach the hierarchs a thing or three. Remember Lumen Gentium 12: "The holy people of God shares also in Christ's prophetic office ... the entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One, cannot err in matters of belief. They manifest this special property by means of the whole peoples' supernatural discernment in matters of faith when "from the Bishops down to the last of the lay faithful" they show universal agreement in matters of faith and morals."

And then there is Cardinal Newman's essay “On Consulting the Faithful in Matters of Doctrine,” which makes a compelling case for responsible dissent and the "rights" of the laity, and for development of doctrine ... providing the example of the Arian doctrine, which was supported by an Emperor, a Pope and most Bishops, but resisted by the laity. NCR has a good article on the controversy here: https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/newman-sense-and-consent-faithful

It is not always a trivial matter to distinguish between right and wrong, true and false, in an absolutist black and white fashion. Such clear-cut distinctions can be problematic, especially as weighty matters are still being worked out. Hence, I am not at all surprised that Pope Francis can appear at times as being vacillating on the hot-button issues. In tackling moral issues, Vatican II cautioned of the need to be aware of "the changeable circumstances which the subject matter, by its very nature, involves," and that it "happens rather frequently, and legitimately so, that with equal sincerity some of the faithful will disagree with others on a given matter" (Gaudium et Spes 43), we are asked in 33 to sometimes hold the tension of an unresolved issue, rather than arrive at a premature conclusion: "The Church, as guardian of the deposit of God's word, draws religious and moral principles from it, but it does not always have ready answers to particular questions."

A case in point would be the moral question of slavery. The Holy Office's 1866 instruction, signed by Pope Pius IX, answers questions raised by the vicar apostolic to the Galla in East Africa, Cardinal Massaia, who was concerned, inter alia, with the laws of Galla giving a master the right to kill a slave. The Holy Office replied: "Slavery itself, considered as such in its essential nature, is not at all contrary to the natural and divine law ... It is not contrary to the natural and divine law for a slave to be sold, bought, exchanged or given." St Pope John Paul II would later assert slavery to be intrinsically evil and objectively disordered (Veritatis Splendor 80).

I suppose that we should be extremely cautious when discerning truth, lest we fall into the trap of thinking we know fully the mind of the Ineffable God!

What impresses me most about Pope Francis is that he is open to discernment, and to being surprised by God ... and that he can openly admit to having made a mistake and changing his mind!

Nick Heckman
7 months ago

I think that’s an interesting point but a large number of bishops (all that I know of) and the pope still affirms the church’s teaching on sexual morality. And a it is not a majority consensus among the faithful especially outside of the west. I’ve gained a lot out of this conversation and I thank you for remaining civil. I hope you have a good week.

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

Thank you, Nick, for the interesting dialogue ... I appreciate your honesty and civility. I pray that you, too, have a blessed week ahead!

PS "New poll figures released this week in Rome show a majority of practising Catholics in the world’s eight biggest Catholic countries want the Church to adopt a more positive approach towards LGBT people and to change its teaching in this area. The polling, carried out by YouGov for the Equal Future 2018 Campaign, was conducted in Brazil, Mexico, Columbia, Philippines, United States, France, Spain and Italy. Collectively these countries comprise half of the world’s total population of baptised Catholics." https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/10852/most-catholics-want-change-in-approach-towards-lgbt-people-finds-poll

Robert Lewis
7 months ago

They are, indeed, closeted, because their meetings are secret and their membership rolls are not made public. They do not attend mass together, as Dignity folks do in some dioceses. Silence=death, and not only of the physical body, but of the psyche and of the moral intelligence. "Same-sex-attracted" folks need to publicly request of the Catholic laity support in bearing their cross, as well as permission to work at developing spousal accompaniment that strives for chastity in the relationship. The way forward in this is spelled out in Alan Bray's tome, THE FRIEND, which definitively proves that the Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox Churches once provided a sacramental rite of "sworn brotherhood" for members of the same sex who wished to live with and support each other throughout their lifetimes. Their funeral effigies, representing their relationships as nearly spousal (with coats of arms united on the tombs in the same way that married couples are) are almost everywhere in the abbeys, cathedrals and churches of medieval Western and Eastern Europe. Bray has exhaustively documented this.

Andrew Wolfe
7 months ago

It's hard to put much credence with what you're saying — unless what you're really saying is that people with same-sex attraction are completely dependent on external validation and that their problems and suicides are other people's faults. Neither Jesus nor the Church consider disorder to be condemnation, which is why the Church constantly ministers to people with disorders — alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals. But it is not mercy to tell the alcoholic that alcohol is OK for him. It is not love to tell the criminal that his crime wasn't a crime. It is neither to tell the sinner that his sin wasn't a sin.

The constant drumbeat is that if we do not affirm what the Church teaches is disordered, we are responsible for the deaths of the disordered.

It's helpful to know the latest sophistic wordplay "natural nonpathological minority variant of the human condition"; but it comes down to the same thing: if your attractions and tendencies are dominating your life, the fact that they are related to sex is irrelevant. The claim that they are "natural" is disingenuous. Our nature has fallen and the plan of salvation is to redeem it, not to deny its fallen-ness. It doesn't matter whether it's overeating, binge-watching TV, alcohol, or pornography. It's dominates our lives apart from Christ, not any Church teaching, that "begins to destroy our very capacity to love."

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

All I can do is point to the empirical research ... see, for example, the study led by Julia Raifman (postdoctoral fellow in the Department of Epidemiology at the Bloomberg School of Public Health of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD) ... the news article "Researchers have associated gay marriage legalization with a decrease in suicide attempts among teenagers" gives a good summary of the findings at https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/315933.php while the journal article (in JAMA Pediatrics) is at https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2604258

Robert Lewis
7 months ago

Fine, but it must be "redeemed" out in the open, in public, and with a PUBLIC affirmation (made to the people in the pews) that there is NOTHING shameful about the condition, and that it is, perhaps, one of the most glorious "crosses" to be borne, since it may have saved the souls of such as Michelangelo Buonarotti and Gerard Manley Hopkins, and, perhaps, even of John of the Cross.

Frank T
7 months ago

Don't forget Leonardo DaVinci!

J Jones
7 months ago

I agree.

Andrew Wolfe
7 months ago

The Church's teaching demonizes no one, and you should not claim that it does. The fundamental goal for all of us is not sexual fulfillment in this life, but eternal life in a Heaven without sex. The Church's consistently merciful attitude and ministry towards criminals, even capital murderers, should be more than enough to demonstrate that the Church demonizes no one. We save the sinner by freeing him from his sin—and ourselves in the same way. If you are unwilling to separate your identity from sexual tendencies and practices that is not the Church's responsibility.

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

Thank you so very much for those insights, Andrew ... they help enormously! You have reminded me of the Church's consistently merciful attitude and ministry towards me and those like me. How could I be so silly as to forget! Please pardon my amnesia. As a way of saying thank you, I gift you with the following link ... please read it reflectively and prayerfully ... it is the personal testimony of a devout Catholic man, and provides insight into the very real struggles we can encounter on our pilgrim way ... https://medium.com/reaching-out/gay-and-catholic-30f7755a4726

Robert Lewis
7 months ago

Thank you for this. I agree that everyone commenting here needs to read it.

Frank Elliott
7 months ago

The Fifth Lateran Council in 1215 mandates that Jews wear characteristic clothing so that they could be distinguished form Christians. One of the most familiar implementations of this decree was the Yellow Star. This exposed skews in Christian lands to persecution and murder. Catholics also blood libeled Jews and celebrated these libels in Catholic art. For example the fictitious Blood Libel saint Hugh of Lincoln is shown on a stained glass window in Lincoln Cathedral having his throat cut by Jews wearing the same yellow star. At his particular blood libel arose because the local bishop wanted his Jewish creditor murdered. How is this not demonization and persecution?

Phillip Stone
7 months ago

There is no gay gene. Antenatal suffering can severely damage people.
Moral theology designates actions and beliefs as right or wrong, forbidding and teaching against murder and against certain sex acts does not label anyone, the judgement is upon the sin.
Doing sex with someone is not love, no repetition of propaganda make truth false or error truth.

Daniel Montiel
7 months ago

Pretending that “a gay gene” must be identified and located for human sexuality to be understood as not under a person’s / any person’s control is to create a false requirement. Everyone, of *all* orientations, can confirm that they did not choose —that NO ONE chose— the gender(s) to which they were attracted. Although every human of course chooses whom to pursue, whom to date, and whom to build a life with, human being aren’t given the choice of “which gender(s)” to find attractive in the first place!
It is sad - although not surprising - to see people like Mr. Stone pretendalie that gay people are “damaged”, that homo- or bi-sexuality is a function or result of prenatal “suffering” — indeed, anti-gays like Phillip take their roles as self-appointed-liars-about-gay-people so, so seriously that they pretend that falling in love with someone is a “sex act”. 🙄🙄

J Jones
7 months ago

Frank, I agree.

Trent Shannon
7 months ago

"They suggest using phrases such as “persons with same-sex attraction” instead."

Theres a very good reason why we want LGBT used. Besides not being clinical dross and a lot quicker to say, not all of us are same sex attracted. Case in point, B for Bisexual, the both sex attracted (like myself).

Long winded clinical language that isnt inclusive, or worse no recognition whatsoever, pushes things under a rug, out of the way, and is quite ignorant especially given the hate, vitriol, and pressure we get from some quarters

Daniel Montiel
7 months ago

Very true.

Kester Ratcliff
7 months ago

How the Church's responses to LGBTI and women and people who don't fit or aren't willing to fit into a fundamentally hierarchical idea of morality will change is inherently related to the most profound issues with how to keep the communion together genuinely in quality and quantity. Some right-wing American Catholics are extremely obsessed with this issue because it symbolises their fundamentally different attitude to what morality is. "Natural ordering" to them isn't teleological as it was for Aquinas (and I disagree with Aquinas on this too, but that's a much subtler difference) but hierarchical, so anyone lower in the hierarchy deviating from obedience to traditional authorities is essentially "sinful" and anyone higher up can violate subordinates with impunity. They may practice it more moderately than is usually expected with this term, but I believe that's essentially the moral worldview of fascism, not Catholicism. Historically, they have been muddled up for some people many times before.

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
7 months ago

"We take people where they are, walking with them, moving forward."
Amen.
|
"We are all sinners."
What does this have to do, specifically, with LGBT?

Frank Elliott
7 months ago

I agree with your question.

what does your Ph.D., or mine, have to do with this discussion?

Frank Elliott
7 months ago

I agree with your question.

what does your Ph.D., or mine, have to do with this discussion?

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
7 months ago

It is rather pretentious, isn't it.
I'll drop it.
Thanks

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
7 months ago

There...
Better now?

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
7 months ago

Trying again...

Frank Elliott
7 months ago

Congratulations on your Ph. D. by the way! I wasn’t there to tell you when you earned it.

Roland Greystoke
7 months ago

The only teaching needed is to tell children that being gay is wrong. If you haven't read the book, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90s, then you need to. The 'acceptance' of the gay community was a well-orchestrated propaganda operation. I have been told that being gay is a choice. If so, then it is always the wrong choice, much like suicide. The day I see a straight father go to see his newborn son for the first time, and say, "I hope he's gay.", then I just might, maybe, start considering that I could be wrong. But I am not holding my breath.

Frank Elliott
7 months ago

Having grown up gay with a father who told me at every opportunity how evil and disgusting gay people are for the 89 years of his life even though I abstained from sex, Being gay is no choice. the only choices I had were to kill myself and put an end to the suffering, but that would have handed a victory to a bastard like you. Please, sterilize yourself before you have children to torture.

James Michael Torcivia, Ph.D.
7 months ago

Nicely said, Frank.
Take Pride.
jmt

Daniel Montiel
7 months ago

Your pretendalying that *any* human being “chooses” their sexual orientation is where you lose people. And reality.

Crystal Watson
7 months ago

The idea that Cupich is some kind of gay rights proponent is ludicrous. When a vote on marriage equality came to his state of Washington, he worked against it, implying that gay people getting married would lead to incest marriages and polygamy ... https://thinkprogress.org/washington-state-bishop-oppose-marriage-equality-to-keep-heterosexuality-special-f1145c0e14f6/ .... the church might as well own its homophobia because no one is being fooled.

JOHN GRONDELSKI
7 months ago

Archbishop Chaput is correct: "LGBTQI" does not belong in an ecclesiastical document, and including it there is just the tendency of the "let's reheat those 70s leftovers" party of Cupich, Kasper, et al. to accommodate the Zeitgeist rather than teach Catholic teaching. If the scandal of McCarrick and Pennsylvania does not teach us to address the moral issue of LGBT behavior, then we should clearly answer next Sunday's Gospel by saying: Bartimaeus, you fool, we DON'T WANT TO SEE.

Vincent Couling
7 months ago

"If the scandal of McCarrick and Pennsylvania does not teach us to address the moral issue of LGBT behavior" is no different to saying "If the scandal of Maciel Degollado** does not teach us to address the moral issue of heterosexual behaviour" ... I wonder who is foolish and doesn't want to see!

**Founder and General Director of the Legion of Christ, who apparently abused the children he had fathered

Frank Elliott
7 months ago

Chaput is cut from the same cloth as Mahmoud Ahmadi Nejad who infamously said that there are no gays in Iran, because, as a totalitarian he uses the power of the state to kill them as soon as they are found. Chaput is a clerical fascist.

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